Vinny Golia, pfMENTUM, February 1998

by Keith McMullen

[Editor's Note: As we were getting ready to go to print we received the new issue of Cadence magazine, one of the top magazines dealing with creative improvised music. In its 1997 Readers'/Writers' Poll "for recognizing the efforts and labels who have given exceptional pleasure to readers" we find that the Nine Winds record label (owned and operated by Vinny Golia) tied for seventh place (with Blue Note) in the record label category, and that Vinny stood by himself at the number one position of individual players. If that wasn't enough, albums on which Vinny played made it to seven of the critics' top ten lists. Congratulations, Vinny!]

The following interview was conducted via email over a two week period.

How did you become interested in art in the first place?

I turned to visual art when I was a child to occupy my time, as both my parents worked. My dad worked at the Bronx Zoo so I was very fortunate to be able to draw live animals. Since my father was very well-liked, I literally had my run of the zoo and met many people who helped me become very good at drawing and painting. They seemed to think I had some talent at what I did.

What was the attitude toward art and music in your family?

My mom liked to sing around the house-the usual Italian and pop songs of the day, and she also liked country and western music; still does. She thought I should know about classical music and bought some typical classical records from time to time. My dad was into the big bands and Louis Armstrong. They were not well versed in the arts, but they appreciated them. Modern things were not to their liking. They had the usual puzzled responses to them.

If you are into reading, what literature is important to you?

I read a lot of science fiction, and I also read a lot about music. Right now I've just finished some clarinet books, the reading parts anyway, from Buddy DeFranco and Bill Smith, a performance manual on the contrabassoon, and some other things, like the Steve Lacy book. The music books are essential study guides; the science fiction is like time out, but some authors are truly transportive. With authors like Ben Bova and James P. Hogan, I have to start and finish the book. I guess I get compulsive about it.

Have you read any works by Philip K. Dick?

I have read Philip Dick and a host of others. I mentioned Hogan because his views on artificial (!!??) intelligence are really important regarding the creation of other sentient life forms, as well as his research into how other cultures would be different than the current views. Ben Bova, because of the obvious research into terra forming planets and Mars exploration in particular.

What films are important to you?

Well, a lot of films are important to me. It's a great way to relax and be stimulated. It's probably the medium that has replaced opera as cultural event over the last hundred years. To name particular films would be misleading; however, I do really like Japanese films and B-Movies from the 50s.

What visual art is important to you?

Kandinsky and Josef Albers, mainly for the color theories and their relation to music. They're who I was studying while learning how to play my instruments. I also have a great liking for the Surrealists. Surrealism is a wondrous marriage of technique and vision.

Why did you switch from painting to music?

That was a gradual thing. I was hanging around drawing musicians in New York City and was trying to find links between color and sound vibrations. After a while I started to work with laser beams and such, but it was very unfulfilling at the time. While I was trying to use painting as music notation, I thought I could try to learn the language of music so I could express myself better to the musicians. But, gradually my focus shifted to developing my playing skills. I was also struck by the communal nature of improvisation and how you could interact much more easily with others. That was very exciting.

Why did you choose creative improvised music?

I didn't really make any distinction; it was just music to me.

Why did you choose woodwinds?

I heard the sound of the soprano sax on Coltrane's record, Coltrane, and I was hooked. It was like the East meets West thing all wrapped up in a package, the beauty and mysticism of the East and the power and mass of the West all right there, and I wanted to be a part of it somehow. Years later, when I got the chance, I bought a soprano saxophone after being exposed to music first hand.

Who are some of your other musical influences?

The most important musical influences that I've ever had are the friends with whom I play music.

Hearing you perform a clarinet duet with the late John Carter remains one of my most memorable live listening experiences. What was John Carter's impact on local music?

John was one of the big three for new music in L.A., the others being Horace Tapscott and Bobby Bradford. He always treated everyone, as do the other two, as if their thoughts and comments on any subject were the only thing on his mind. He never talked down to anyone and really loved music. A very beautiful soul. I was fortunate to consider him a good friend, and we played together in a number of contexts from duo to the Large Ensemble. I played in some of John's groups, most notably his Octet. The Gramavision record label did not want to record the West Coast version. He always took the music to another level, something not every player can do. A very special man.

What are some memorable gigs you have attended?

The Miles Davis group with Wayne Shorter, Chick Corea, Dave Holland, and Jack DeJohnette at the Village Gate. I've never seen a band leader change the music the way Miles did, just with body inflection. That band was tuned to his every move. Tony Williams' first concert with Lifetime at Sluggs in the East Village. Every musician in New York must have been there, and Tony seemed liked he was levitating on the drums. Remember, this is at a time when the guitar wasn't even considered an instrument. Mahavishnu Orchestra-anywhere-totally staggering. Herbie Hancock Sextet. I saw them here at the Lighthouse, and Pharoah Sanders sat in. Weather Report. About the time of their first two albums-very beautiful. Mingus, McCoy Tyner, Elvin Jones, Lee Morgan. The list is endless. I was in the greatest conservatory in the world, life itself, and at the best time in history.

What is the status of this music in the U.S. right now? Are things changing? How?

Well, there's a lot of interest in the Miles Davis groups of the 60s and the late 70s, but there is no real understanding of the music he created. There's a lot of interest in how Trane played, but there's no understanding of why he did what he did. There are a lot of musicians trying to make a buck by trying to do what people tell them to, and there are a lot of musicians with no commitment to the music at all. There are also a lot of people trying to improvise without doing their homework. I know, because I was one of them when I started. So I see a lot of confusion. With the current state of critics, major labels, and such, I don't see things changing greatly. There's just too much emphasis on personality and locality rather than the music at this time. There's also this thing of musicians trying to cram what they think is music down everyone's throats which I find distasteful-no pun intended.

Is it possible to summarize what Miles and Coltrane were doing?

I don't think people really have an understanding of how much the existing boundaries of music were being expanded by these musicians. An intimate search for personal truths has been reduced to a personality trait, a quirk of fate-the music isn't really discussed.The energy expended to really confront one's inner self is never even mentioned by critics. The amount of work it took, and still takes, to be able to execute an idea in an instant and to react to other musicians' contributions isn't covered in any of these insightful articles about any of these musicians, as far as I can tell. It's much more sensational to create beings of mythic proportion and ignore all the others who were striving to achieve the same goals at the same time. This period of time from the 30s to the early 70s was a renaissance of epic proportion in all fields of human endeavor.

What are you doing that you hope people can understand if they are to take your music seriously?

Hopefully the music with which I am involved will touch them emotionally, will find a way into them, and not just be categorized, boxed, or feared. Also, I would like people to know that the music we play is an amalgam of our life experiences. It's not just the Vinny Golia experience; it is the sum total of all the musicians involved in the projects I am doing. That means not only all we hear but what we do. As Lisle Ellis says, "It's what we live."

What you say about improvisation reminds me of my own work as a psychotherapist. When that client walks into the room, I rely on my train-ing and my life experience to interact with them in a unique, improvised way that is influenced by a source beyond the ego. Perhaps it is the same source from which musicians draw.

Yes, I think what you are saying is very true, and it's a shame that everyone thinks they can do it (music, improv, et cetera). The real fact is that even musicians can't do it amongst themselves sometimes. It takes a lot of openness to confront yourself on this level, and in some ways for the listener also. Listeners don't have to view it on the same level as the musicians, but hopefully they can enter at whatever level they wish. Then, the music should be strong enough to continue on and stay in the memory retention areas working as a positive tool for change, as an image or melody or event memory. Of course, in an ideal world pigs can fly, too.

Do you believe something objectively specific is being communicated in a musical performance?

It all has to come down to individual interpretation, unless the audience has achieved the great "ONENESS" that is spoken of. Unfortunately, individuals are essentially separate from one another, and that's what the quest for communication is, that one chance to connect with someone. Occasionally, and this is when music really becomes what I've searched for, the audience IS melded together via the music. That's when the mystical part of music does its job. I have been fortunate to experience this, and it is magnificent.

How are you received in other parts of the world? Europe? Japan?

I seem to be in the curious spot of people having heard my name but never having seen me play. People are really surprised that I can actually play all my instruments well, and that I play more melodically than they've heard other players play. They are usually struck by the power and energy of the groups I play in, also. In Japan they are much more curious as to why we play melodic music and intense music. They seem to categorizefree music into only one form of energy displacement. Their players usually do one thing or the other; it's still a very rigid society. The Europeans, of course, are pioneers in the freer forms, and they wonder why the Americans are tied to the groove, et cetera. So in summing up your question, I am usually received quite well.

Why do you choose to live in Los Angeles?

I live here because of the musicians that I play with, and my girlfriend lives here also.

What has been the nature of your musical education?

Basically, I started as a self-taught musician, but I was surrounded by fantastic musicians who I considered friends, and I learned a lot from them by observing while drawing. Then, I took two lessons from Anthony Braxton and two from the late Bill Green out here in Los Angeles. I've also had a lesson on bassoon with John Steinmetz. So I consider myself self-taught, and I've really learned the most from the players I perform with.

To whom are you currently listening?

Gubdalina, Donald Erb, Robert Aitkins, Jerry Goldsmith's score to Planet of the Apes, about a ton of demo tapes sent to Nine Winds. I usually listen to each cd or tape three times. I am also listening to the projects that Nine Winds is putting out. Currently we just got the mixes of the Paul Smoker Quartet back, so things like that.

When and how did your label, Nine Winds, come into being?

1977 was the first recording, Spirits in Fellowship. The label was originally started to record and document what I was up to, and then it expanded into recording others for the same purpose.

What is the philosophy behind Nine Winds?

The goal of Nine Winds is to expose the under-represented music of players from the West Coast of North America. I feel they are treated poorly in the press, and that often their music is much stronger than that in other parts of the world.

Is your creative process informed by any particular aesthetic philosophy?

I think that the essence of creativity is very simple. Something from within pushes you to achieve or complete ideas or visions that you have, about projects, people,and such. After a while you find that you have a body of work that does fit into some kind of artistic criteria, but that is not your real concern. The thing that is the most comfortable to you, or really essential to the act of creating, is that you are using all the faculties that you have at your disposal and are being pushed to discover even more. When it's happening, it's quite exhilarating. When it's not, it is very frustrating.

What do you do (or not do) when the creative process is not happening and you're feeling frustrated?

Well I find that blockages are caused by two things: either laziness to get the job done or an insecurity to actually start the job. Sometimes, I find I am straining too much to get what's inside to the outside. Relaxation is the key, and usually I walk or smoke on a pipe or cigar, not too often though. A meditation or going to a spiritual place will always help.

Do you use any other discipline to develop yourself as an artist? Any physical or spiritual disciplines?

I've been involved with Eastern philosophy for some time, and I think it has speeded things along. As for physical stuff, I occasionally lift weights and walk. All of these things help me to round out.

How do you see your career evolving over the next 10 years?

In a perfect world I would like to work more in the larger group format, both with the Large Ensemble and in collaboration with an orchestra. I would also like to do more movie scores. I am working on one now. Touring with the quintet remains a priority, in the other continents as well as this one. I will continue to teach at Cal Arts, and the Art Center, and perhaps branch that out a bit as I've been doing as a visiting artist. This would enable me to work more and increase my visibility as an artist and increase record sales. I would also like to keep the current recording schedule that I've had over the last two years. In the next 10 years, I'll move into being more of an elder statesman regarding this music, so visiting artist opportunities and the like are starting to come along.

What direction would you offer for young people who are interested in becoming musicians?

I always tell them that they should remember why they started to play music in the first place and to stress their basic music skills so they can be ready for any situation.